Transcript

Brook

Welcome to Meaningful Work Remarkable Life. I’m your host Brook McCarthy and I’m a business coach,  trainer and speaker living and working on the unceded lands of the Camaraygal people here in Sydney, Australia.  

In this podcast, we explore the paradoxes inherent in working for love and money, magnifying your impact and doing work you feel born to do.  We explore the intersections of the meanings we bring to work, and the meanings we derive from work.  

I am hugely excited today to welcome back the only guest and considering this podcast barely has guests at all, the only guest who has appeared not just once, but is returning for a second viewing because she’s that good. 

Kate

The honour is mine. Yes. 

Brook

The one and only Kate Cowley, who is my personal accountability coach. and works closely with my clients inside of my audacious mastermind. She’s potentially one of the most audacious people I know and definitely one of the most driven and disciplined. 

Kate

Please don’t stop now.

Brook

A little fluttery will get you everything that you want in this world. 

I want to just jump straight in with the million dollar question, which is somebody says  that they’re going to do something and then they just don’t quite do it. And it’s definitely not because they’re lazy. It’s definitely not that they lack ability, that they’re like, they’re unsure as to what to do exactly. I’d love to hear from you. 

Why do you think people don’t do what they say they’re going to do?

Kate

Number one factor that it comes down to is more often than not fear and whether that fear is because they are scared that they might fail at what they’re about to do. They might not be as good as what they have said that they would be. They have some slight imposter syndrome, so they feel like they have over-promised things that they can’t quite deliver on. 

I think it only, it usually comes down because they’re scared of making huge statements, commitments, and then maybe not being able to follow through. 

That’s usually the case. And so it’s like almost a case of self-sabotage really. What other ways can we fill our time that make us so, so, so, so, so busy that we can’t possibly do all of those things that we say that we’re going to do? All the important things that actually make the business grow rather than just the business have the cogs turning. 

It’s usually a case of fear and a little bit of self-sabotage in there because of that.

Brook

Interesting. I call this procrastinati-work where you’re too busy being busy because you are busy and you are honest to goodness doing stuff and it is stuff in the business. It is not stuff, you know, somewhere else, but you’re not getting to the thing. 

Kate

That thing. No, exactly right.  And like you said, that work is still important and it does need to be done, but there’s got to be a level of priority and actually talking to the people that are going to pay for the work that you are spending all this time doing the admin on is probably the most important thing. Yeah. Yeah. 

Brook

I always die a little on the outside when clients tell me how busy they are with admin. Not the admin. The robots should be doing the admin nation.  I know there’s got to be an AI tool for that. Surely.

Surely. My aim is no admin, but is my dog. I know. 

Kate

But it makes it like, I get it. It makes people feel productive. It makes people feel like they’re, you know, they are doing things  and it’s just another, I don’t know, like excuses, such a harsh word, but it’s another reason. It’s a justification as to why they can’t do those things. And that’s usually because they’re scared. They’re scared. 

Brook

So how do you deal with that for you personally, because I’m sure that you get scared at times. I’m sure there’s plenty of times. Like for example, you’ve just opened a gym and you know, borrowed a lot of money to do so. It was a big financial undertaking. Risk, a big risk. So how did you deal with your own fears in that moment? 

Kate

Um, have I dealt with the fears?

I think the thing is, is that they’re always still there, you just got to do it anyway. And it’s about taking those smaller steps. I took quite a long journey to get to the business opening because I  started my own PT business in my garage. And then I moved into a bigger space and a bigger space. And then finally did the gym thing. So I took those steps. So like, I guess that was almost me like proving that I can do it, but I still get scared. It’s just the matter of doing the repetition and doing the thing that it’s, it’s just taking the leap. That means you have to do it. 

But I will say when it comes to things like we were just talking about, you know, contacting leads and following up on emails and stuff, that’s usually a case of, you know, the more you do it, the better you get at it and just kind of preparing. 

Get yourself a spiel, get yourself so you know what you’re going to say, set yourself up in the perfect environment, get creative time and just do it. That’s the way that you’ve just got to do it. And the first call, first email, the first, it sucks the most. It really, really does suck the most and you will stumble your words. You will say the wrong things. You will just keep talking and talking and talking and talking. 

But the first one is done and you rip the bandaid off. And then the second number is so much easier to call. And then you’ve refined it, what you say a little bit better. And then the next time you refine it even better. And so it just is about doing it and practice really does make perfect. And so I think for me, it’s just, it’s just ripping the bandaid off and doing it and just taking the leap really. 

And just talking to people like you that have your back and have that bit of support that kind of just tell you like, you can do it, have you tried this? So yeah, I think that’s definitely helpful as well. 

Brook

Yeah, I think we’re quite good at like complimenting each other. Sure.  

Kate

Could always be more though, whenever you’re ready.  

Brook

Yeah, oh, 100 % so slow. Your  hair looks great. I love it. I love it. 

Kate

But yeah, like you said, that’s it. Talking to people that have got your back and have also, I think talking to people that have also done it definitely helps.

Um, just, also that’s a trap that you can fall into too, because people then also then go away and they had, they’ve all of a sudden spoken to 45 different people and taken, and they’re just like, don’t feel like I’m quite ready. I’m just going to go and talk to this person and they’re the guru in this. 

Then you get even more confused and then more, more concerned and have no idea what to do. Cause which one’s right, which one’s not. And it’s just doing the thing that’s going to make you get better at it. And you’ll know which way is right for you then.

Brook

I’ve seen that in business many, many times where somebody who’s not doing the thing is very, very good at giving advice to other business owners about doing the thing. They’re helpful and I love to give advice.

And it’s like, no, no, no, you need to stop and just get on with your own thing. Yeah, yeah. 

Kate

Stay in your lane, get your head down and get your work done. Totally.

Well, it’s, know, like it kind of feels exciting to help people and to give other people advice rather than, you know, you actually taking the advice. I mean, a basic human need is to feel like you’re contributing to society. So it definitely ticks a box for you and it fills you a cup a little bit. 

But I think that’s also the procrastination of not being able to kind of be too scared to actually practice what you preach.

Brook 

100%. Now I want to talk a little bit more about the sales thing, the sales piece.

Because you have had extensive experience at this and specifically in calling phone numbers of people who don’t know who you are and introducing yourself because they filled out a form through a meta ad on Instagram or Facebook or wherever else. And then somebody, i.e. you needs to be the person that makes the first contact. And typically you do that through phone rather than email. Whereas, you know, for me, I would typically do that through email rather than phone. 

So can you tell me a little bit about, like, let’s jump straight into the worst case scenario, cause I’m fun like that. Why don’t we just go straight into like, give me an example, like a real life example, a really shitty phone call that you’ve had.  

Kate

The best ones are, I’ll tell you what, and this actually happens all the time, is when someone has sent through their details and it’s really important that you get back to them within the first 24 hours, if not the first hour, if you can.  

But someone will fill out their details and you’ll call them and you’ll be like, hey, I got your name and number through this XYZ, through this Facebook ad, through this. And they’ll go, no, I didn’t fill that out.

And I’m like, um, you have to click like next three times to fill out your details to get to this point. So I,  I,  you did. Um, and they’re like, no, no, I have not filled out anything like that. I’ve never done that. This must be a scam. So that is worst case scenario. 

And  I’m not sure you can actually come back from that.  

Brook

What is the response? What are you saying?

Kate:

My response is like, uh, that is so unfortunate, but you have obviously come up because you’re in our area, which is awesome. Are you trying like, because that was always in a gym kind of environment. So I would say, are you currently training? What is your health? And I would just ask them, are you currently like, I’ve got you, we may as well talk. We’ve like, we’ve both come to this point for a reason. We’ve, found each other on the phone for a reason. Are you currently doing any exercise? Are you currently training? What’s your health and fitness like? Let me help you. 

But other than that, worst case scenario would be people that have entered their details and then just continually say, no, no, no, no, no. I understand people are always looking for the next kind of thing to kind of get them motivated and get them moving and kind of, you know, get them to whatever their goal is. um And so they see things that seem new and shiny and exciting, but you know, there’s always, there can always be an apprehension, whether it’s time, commitment,  money,  just nerves in general. 

So yeah, they’re the people that like not only have one objection but have every objection. Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but. And those are the hardest ones to deal with for sure.  

Brook

So where are the yeah buts coming from? Like where do you think they’re coming from? 

Kate

It always comes down to a factor, like a number of things, and you can usually pinpoint which one it is by just asking some follow-up questions. And so the person that eventually just is like, oh yeah, I’m just not really sure right now.

The next kind of question after that would be like, what do you think that you’re not so sure about? And if they just go, just don’t know, then you kind of would give them some specifics. And then that would kind of unlike, do you think it’s a time thing? You’ve mentioned you’re really busy.  Do you think it’s the investment? I can understand. It’s a lot to kind of,  you know, look at right now. And we’ve just kind of spoken on the phone for a few minutes. And then that usually kind of uncovers it.  

But it’s usually a commitment with time or money. Or the third one, which is not as common, especially now is like, I just go talk to my partner. 

Like I’ve signed people up for like five sessions a week and then they’ve come back the next day and been like, hey, my wife actually said no.  She’s the person you got to talk to.  

Brook

Right. And do you then go and speak to the partner?  

Kate

Well, I then say like, let’s bring her in and let’s do this together. Because there’s obviously something that you want and so maybe she just doesn’t understand. So I think it’s best if you’ve got the support circle that you need the most, then let’s come and do it. Like let’s do this together.

Brook

I love that. I love that. Cause it’s very difficult, right? When you’re in a sales conversation with somebody and the person that’s actually wearing the pants is not in the room. 

Kate

Totally. And you’re like, can you put your boss on, thanks?  Exactly.  Exactly. 

Brook

So, so what do you think, like most people get wrong? Cause I’m sure, I mean, I had,  I got some  wardrobes installed recently into my girl’s bedrooms and I dealt with two different salespeople from two different companies who were, you know, competitors, same kind of idea. Almost the exact same price in the quote. 

One guy was shockingly shit. I was like, I can’t wait to not work with you.  Oh God, he was in my house. Get out. Oh God. I know. 

So what do you think most people go wrong in your experience? Like what have you seen of like bad sales? 

Kate

If you want to break it down into percentages of how much you should be talking versus how much your prospect should be talking, you should only be talking like 30 to 40%, if that, while they’re taking like 70 to 60 to 70%.

So if you’re going to want to call and you are just talking, talking, talking, this is what I do, this is I can do, da da da, and the other person hasn’t actually really got a word in, then that’s a bad sales call. And there could be the opposite of that where the person, you’re not talking enough where they’re kind of just asking you questions and you’re giving them one way to answers. But I mean, that’s very unlikely for someone who is trying to better themselves at sales calls. It’s mostly where they feel like they just need to keep talking.

If you ever read the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Gange, he says like when you’re trying to kind of win over someone or talk to someone, continue asking questions about themselves and then ask, listen, and then formulate your follow up question to that. 

Don’t just have like a list of questions that you want to get through and tick boxes. Ask them a question that relates to the answer that they have given you. And yeah, you can have a kind of guideline of where you want the call to go, of course, but you need to make sure that you are formulating responses based off what they’ve given you and then circle back to that to show that you’re engaged, but you want them talking. 

So what I was saying about that book is that it says like someone will walk away from a conversation with you that they’ve met you for the first time and they’ll go, that person is so nice. And I just don’t know why I like them so much. And it’s because they’ve only spoken about themselves the whole time. Cause you’ve just asked them question after question after question and they feel people love talking about themselves. They love it.

So that is one thing is like just continue asking questions and the more that they feel like you’re engaged and you’re involved and now you’re invested in what they’re on their pain and how you can alleviate some of their pain that is going to be that’s where people go wrong is they feel like they actually need to like put their top hat on and like sell put on a song and dance like I can do this and I can do that  just ask them how you can help them basically yeah let them come up with all the answers.

Brook

Well, everything you just said there is exactly what I do also with networking. Where I just, I just ask people questions. I’m interested in somebody and it’s, you you find out all this interesting stuff about them. Like, gee whiz, I had this conversation with an Uber driver the other day. I was like, Oh my  God. Uber and I was like, I need to lie down. Like I’ve got the whole, we’ve gone really vulnerable and really deep in a like a 15, 20 minute Uber ride.

Kate

I was working out my taxi driver’s calories the other day of how much he’s eating.  So I honestly got home and I was like, I actually charge more for this than this cab fare. So I feel like you should pay me. 

But that’s exactly right. Exactly right. You find out so many interesting things and it’s not, I think the cool thing about it is that that’s always interesting. Like it’s actually quite fun to find out more things about each other. But if you’re in your head of like, this is a sales call. I need to pitch them at the end. 

Yeah. You’re going to, you know, psych yourself out. That’s for sure.

Brook

100%. And I’m really keen on consent-based sales conversations. 

So I make it really clear and obvious that it’s a sales conversation. You know, they fill out a preliminary questionnaire beforehand. They ask them, do know, have you viewed the offering that you’re interested in? Have you seen all the details, including the price? Like I want it to be super abundantly obvious and clear.  This is the sales conversation. Not just a discovery call?  No, definitely not. I hate that term.

Clarity call, sales, know, discovery call, whatever. It’s not. You’re either a person or, you know, you’re taking a brief or you’re selling them. Like it should be really clear and obvious to all parties. 

Kate

And it takes the pressure off you and it makes the call so much nicer and more comfortable. Like you’re not like nervous for the, the close at the end of like, so should I sign you up for the four years of your life? Like, you know, it just is.

Yeah, it may, definitely takes the pressure off, I think. And I think like that qualifying leads is good, but it also gives you a level of authority because you can jump on the floor and clarify like, Hey, what made you reach out? 

You, I was an innocent bystander. You came to me and you’re the one that wanted to seek me out. like, tell me how I can help you. And it just makes your job so much easier as well.  

Brook

Oh, totally, totally. And I love what you said about, you know, you’re letting them do most of the talking.

Because, know, I think a lot of people enter sales conversations, especially if when they’re new and unfamiliar with it, thinking they need to have the perfect pitch and the perfect combination of words and that it needs to come out sounding really schmick and smooth. It doesn’t like, you’re not, that’s not what we’re doing here.  

Kate

1000%. I agree.  I agree. think that just the more that the, one of the, like the best things that I ever learned was the more that you can keep the person with your first calling them.

And a bit different now because people book in for sales calls and you know, it’s going to go for half an hour, an hour, whatever it is.  

But it was like the longer that you can keep that person talking and on the phone and engaged, the way higher the probability were that they were going to commit to you because they’ve like kind of, they’ve committed themselves to you as a person. Then they’re kind of like, wow, this person’s so invested in me. They’re like, they’re, you’ve not even said anything at this point. Like you’ve just let them unload onto you basically. 

Brook

So can I ask a little bit, because you said a few things and I imagine in the health and fitness world especially, but I know it happens to a lot of coaches probably because of that stupid discovery calls and clarity calls, you know, bullshit.  

Do you ever get friend zoned by potential clients where you start a conversation and they put you in the friend zone and they’re thinking you’re just a very nice, generous hearted personal trainer who loves to give free nutrition and training advice? 

Kate

Has that ever happened to me? I’m thinking it might have happened to you.

Brook

I think people attempt to do it. You know, and I like, it’s funny when, you know, you’ve only just met somebody for the first time and you’re having a face-to-face meeting, which I don’t really do much of.  Then they’re like, you know, perhaps next time we meet, we could have a glass of wine. And I’m like,  I don’t know. 

Kate

I think it has. I think that has happened to me, but only after a period of time.

I think the hardest one that happens to me, and I find this, this one I actually find the most awkward to deal with, is when people are like, oh great, I really, really want to start with you, why don’t we do a Contra and you can use my services and I can use your services. 

And you’re like, I don’t require your services. That has definitely happened to me. And I mean, it really just depends on the person. And I think what I just kind of say is like, I’m just not in the position to do that.  

I only have the capacity to offer this and don’t have the time or the commitment to then do like, this is straight. I’ve got, there’s a reason why I do it this way. I’ve got a number of clients and we all have a really great understanding. And if I started doing it, it merkes the waters. So it’s just really important. Yeah. 

But, um, you know, I also like, I’m like, oh, how do those people like hustling for a deal? Like I sometimes I’m like, good for you for even just saying out loud. I think I’d be too scared to do that.

Brook

It happens all the time. It doesn’t happen to me. Like it certainly happened a lot in the early days. Yeah. And I think one of the most funny ones was when I was on holidays with my family, we were in far, far Northern Queensland, like the kind of place where you have to drive onto a barge to get to the dead end road and the school house, you know, kindy to 12 and there’s 20 students. 14 people there. Exactly.

And I go to visit this retreat center because, I love looking at retreat centers, especially on holidays. 

And the owners, you know, we’re talking about digital marketing and marketing in general. And the owners are like, you know, oh, I’ve got this great idea. Why don’t we do some contra and you can do digital marketing for our retreat center. And, you know, in exchange, you can come back and stay here for free. And I’m thinking, you want me to come back?

It’s a long, long journey to get here. Oh my God.  

Kate

And how did you respond?  

Brook

Oh, I can’t remember what I said. Something nice and, you know, I’m sure conciliatory, which probably nowadays I’d be a lot shorter. Yeah. With the person. But, you know, I think it’s an interesting thing that you brought up because contra happens all the time in business and it doesn’t get discussed. Yeah. it happens.

You know, it happens, people get asked for Contra when they’ve got decades of experience and they’re still being hit up, you know, for like, oh, well, if only you could photograph my event.  Then, you know, I could pay you in tampons. I don’t know, like. 

Kate

Totally. I know. I know. And I think if you are, I mean, I guess you’re right. The discovery call and clarity call definitely sets you up for failure on that one because then it’s people. Well, they don’t know that you’re there to sell them something and that the sale means that there will be a transaction and it will be monetary for my services. 

I think, yeah,  that’s why I think the being upfront about that you are literally about to sell someone. And I think also putting a value on it upfront as well, then hopefully people will understand that that’s where your standards and expectations lie, that that value is met, when that’s not going to be through swapping services. I think it does happen a lot.

And I, and I wonder if people just feel like they need to say yes, because they don’t want to disrespect the person. I think it’s very, you’re very well within your rights to say like, yeah, that is absolutely something that I used to consider years down the track. And maybe it didn’t serve me then doesn’t serve me as well now. So now I think it’s best to just keep it clear cut. 

Brook

Totally, totally.  And so you had a brand new gym opening and you are currently at how many members? 

Kate

We’ve got two, about 245 now, think. 245 members. I know, I know. Very exciting. 

Brook

So tell me a little bit about how you got, how you enrolled 245 people.

 I’m sure it’s a long story, so just jump into.

Kate

Should I start at member one?  It is, I called people, we called, like just over and over and over called people because I have a gym that is, it’s a franchise, it’s a very well known brand.  

And so that kind of brought people in through Facebook ads, social media, all of that kind of stuff.

That is definitely where it stopped. And it doesn’t mean that people are just going to sign up there and then because you have a name, like people still need to be sold.  

And that was we something we learned really quickly that people were showing heaps of interest and they weren’t necessarily committing until we picked up the phone and called them. So then we went through and we called every single person. We like, all were on the phone. There was a couple of us there and we were just all on the phone for weeks, literally weeks at a time calling our leads, just talking to them, asking them what their health and fitness goals were, what their, like the best thing to do is to get someone to clarify why they, why they’ve like shown interest again, that shows you that they’ve engaged you kind of to ask them why that, you then you kind of put a label on why they’ve engaged you. Like, so what I’m hearing is that you don’t like your current gym because there’s no vibe or whatever, or you’re trying to lose weight or whatever the goal is.

And then from there, you kind of be like, so that’s cool. So what the good thing about it is that you have trained before at a gym like this, or you’re currently not training. So you know exactly what you like and what you don’t like. 

Let’s focus on what you don’t like at the moment. And then you can go through all of the pain points and then you basically go through and then they kind of reiterate why it’s not working. And then in their head, they’re like, wow, this is really shit. There is a reason why I’ve shown interest. This is a reason why I’ve reached out to you. 

And then from there, you basically show how you can fix all of those pain points if they just sign up to your gym. Yes. And then that’s how we did it.  

Brook

And the vibe thing. mean, like,  funny you brought that up. I’ve seen this in action. I’ve seen you do this a thousand times. I think you are a vibe and you bring the vibe. And I know that you are also great at training people, like not just your clients, obviously, but, you know, mentoring, coaching, training staff and other team members. 

How do you kind of, guess the word is manufacture for want of a better word. How do you actually manufacture a vibe so that people want to be in, you know, a gym? 

And let’s be honest, the first time, you know, I walked into the gym and started training with you, I was like, kill me now. I would rather be doing anything fast. It took me nine long months listeners before I started feeling even remotely, you know, comfortable in that place. 

Kate

And now what do you do? You go in there on your own and do your own thing. Okay. You’re like my biggest success story.  The most important thing and that I think people always say to me and you still say to me too, is that you ask people questions about themselves and then you don’t forget it. You remember. And if that means you need to write it down so that next time you speak to that person, you can reference back to it.

That person feels so important. That person feels so valued and that person feels like this person really fucking cares about me. And that is massive. So not only are you showing that you’re engaged and you’re asking questions and you are listening to them, you are actually hearing them and you are referring back to that the next time you see it. 

Because the thing that people don’t understand is like with gyms or with personal training or even every time, if you’re a coach and you’ve got a coaching call with that person, every single time you’re coaching that person, that is actually a sales call because you’re trying to get them to book in for the next time you’re going to make you want them to show up the next day. You want them to see you in one month’s time. It’s so easy for them to be like, I don’t want to do that call. 

You’re selling them every single time that you see them. So every time you, every time your interaction, whilst it’s not like a sales call, you need to be the best version of yourself and you need to be on and making sure that not only are you invested in them, but then you’re also adding value. Adding value is also huge.

And something I found quite different going from the personal training space to the group training space is that I’ve got to try and get around to 45 people in an hour rather than one and show them that same vibe and show them that same level of care and then add value as well. 

So I think those are the main things is like showing you’re actually invested, but you just like a little bit of value at every single time. So they feel important and something else that actually is huge for people that makes people feel excited and wanted and needed is let them teach you something. 

When you let someone teach you something, they feel important. They feel a little value. They feel a little special and they feel like they’re adding something to your life and that makes them feel good. And so let them teach you something. And then next time reference back to that thing and be like, I did that thing that you told me. And like, Oh my God, wasn’t it great? Tell me about it. And then that way, you can, that, always helps too. 

Brook

It’s, it’s really like basic rapport building and basic social skills. And yet I think that not everybody has these skills, know, hence that silly book, you know, how to make friends and influence people, you know, absolutely definitely read the book, but also it’s just a whole book of common sense.  

Kate

You would hope that it was, but there’s a reason why there are people like you and I that exist. It’s because it’s not and that people need to be shown this and it’s something that like when I’m looking for other trainers or other coaches, that that’s the thing that you look for and not necessarily who has the most knowledge because that knowledge can be taught. People can learn that.

This stuff is really, really hard to teach and takes a lot of practice if you don’t necessarily have it nailed. If you’re not a really outgoing extroverted person, it can be hard to put yourself out there in that regard. And it doesn’t mean that you’ve got to be the loudest person in the room, but it means that you do have to put yourself out there and be a bit vulnerable, ask lots of questions to someone that you may not feel that comfortable approaching or calling or whatever it may be. 

Um, but the more you do it, the better you get at it. Hopefully. 

Brook

Great. Love that. I want to ask you the million dollar question and look, you know, it’s a question I’m sure I’ve asked you a thousand times before, which is how do you personally do all the things that you do because listeners, this is not an ordinary woman, just in case she’s giving you this impression. 

You get up at a ridiculous hour. You have a toddler. You have a very active toddler. You know, you own a brand new business. You’re managing other people, employing other people. Like you’ve got a social life, which is extraordinary that you’d have a social life. Maybe even you shower. Who knows?

Kate

From time to time. 

Brook

Like how do you actually manage it? And let me just ask, let me just ask a couple more things. Let’s pretend you’ve had some really sucky clients that day that have kind of drained your life force. You’ve, you know, not slept as well as you could have slept the night before. How do you just kind of bring it? How do you turn it on for the 5:45 class

So that, you know, the vibes are high and you’re making everybody feel like it’s a really good time. 

Kate

Just to be clear, our first class is at 5am. Oh God, no! I know. And do you know what’s so psycho is like, that’s our busiest class. So I’m not the only psycho in the world. There’s a lot of psychos out there. It’s one of those things, it’s something that I just naturally do to be honest, but it does,sometimes it does take a bit of pep up to get yourself up. 

But the way that I think about it is that people are all paying the exact same money for me to be the exact same person. And whether that person is in the 5 a.m. class or they are in the 6 p.m. class or like my personal training, my first personal training client of the day, or they’re my client that’s at 5 30 p.m. at night, which is like zombie zone for me. 5 p.m, is they’re all paying the same amount of money and they deserve the same amount of investment that every single class gets. 

So that’s the way that I kind of look at it. And the people that, even though I don’t really enjoy taking the 5 and 6 p.m. that doesn’t mean that they’re not as valuable to me as the 5 a.m. classes because I still need them to come back. I still need them to be part of my business. 

And so I think it’s just about compartmentalizing, I’m a huge, huge advocate of just leaving your shit at the door. Business is business and you’ve got to be able to kind of just let anything, water off a ducks back, put in a little box, put a bow on it. I’m going to address that later and then come back to your shit and do do what you need to do and just get done what needs to get done. 

I’m very, I’m firm believer of that. And I think if you have a really solid schedule structure routine, that definitely helps. Looking after yourself super important, like training and eating right and getting good sleep is really important. That kind of helps those bad days less bad, be less bad. 

But I think it’s the times when you’ve had a shitty, you know, few things, you’ve been putting out fires all day and then you get to Tuesday at 11 o’clock and you know when those are your sales calls and you’re like, fuck, I don’t want to do this. But if that is your Tuesday at 11 a.m. process, you just need to do it and that becomes your routine and your schedule because otherwise you’ll always find a reason to put off.

And so first that reason could be, I’ve had the worst day ever and like it was terrible. But then after time that reason becomes like, Ooh, my coffee wasn’t great this morning. And so I think I’ll just quickly write and make another one before my 12 o’clock. So I won’t be able to do my 11 o’clock sales calls and that’s okay. And so then it just because it’s a slippery slope. 

Once you let it slide for one reason, then you’ll let it slide for any reason. So you’ve got a really big discipline and stick to it and tell yourself like, like just make a commitment to yourself and do it.

And again, the end of the day, the more structure that you have, the more likely you and routine you have, the more likely you are to commit to it. If you just go sit down and go, maybe I’ll do sales calls today, or maybe I’ll do this today for the things that, or maybe I’ll do my marketing, which people hate, like that’s, it’ll never happen.

Um, so I think the more structure you have, the more process you have in place, the easier things to get done because it’s not such a mental load anymore. It’s not sitting there, weighing over your head. It becomes just part of a, like a well-oiled machine.

Brook

Yes, I love that. The processes, the structures, the systems do a lot of the heavy lifting and keep you out of the overthinking and overworking zone and just into head is in seat and off I go. Bum is in seat, head is not in seat. No, head is in would be great. 

Kate

That’s a good reason to not do your calls.

But yeah, exactly. Let it do the heavy lifting for you. A hundred percent. Like you just don’t want the weeks, hard stuff weighing over your head all the time. Um, because then you’ll find a thousand reasons for it not to happen. If it’s always scheduled in there and you know exactly what you’re doing and you just roll into the next thing becomes just part of the process. 

Brook

Totally. And I think there’s a really nice analogy here with weightlifting because it’s so goddamn hard.  And that’s one of the reasons I love it because you’re deliberately making yourself uncomfortable and  really having to bring all your attention like the squats I was doing that I was telling you about, where was imagining you were there hyping me up. 

Kate

The trauma, honestly, the trauma. 

Brook

I noticed when it’s really hard. I cannot look at anyone. If anyone enters my peripheral vision, they pull my focus and I’m like, I can’t look at that guy. I’ve just got to look at that spot on the ground and I got to keep all my focus on that spot on the ground because I do not have capacity for anything other than lifting this really heavy thing back up. 

Kate

100%. And there’s 4,000 things you have to look to think about to prepare to lift the heavy weight. Like is my shoulders back and down, is my core brace, my knees out, is my like everything.

And so yeah, 1000%, it is very much like that. And then also that’s what I like about weightlifting. It’s like, I can do hard things, you know, you just, you can definitely do hard things. You get a sales call and they reject you and then you’re like, well, fuck you, I just squatted 55 kilos for 10 reps. I can do hard things onto the next one. 

Brook

Exactly. I love that you said that. I love that you said that because, know, everybody listening to this, you may have pushed a a baby out of your vajayjay. Like you may have gone through some horrific experience. You may have lost a loved one who was very close to you. You have experienced this. You have endured this. You are capable of picking up the phone and having a conversation with a stranger or  prospect. One thousand percent. 

Kate

And like the thing that I always like to remember in these, it’s like unless you were just

Oh wow, I don’t know how old I am. Opening the phone book, I was about to say. Who has a phone book?  And like just flicking to a random page and picking a number. Like these leads are a little bit warm. There is a reason why you have their email. There’s a reason why you have their phone number. And that means that they’ve come to you. It’s not like, they’ve, they’ve sought you out because they were interested in you. 

And even if they say no, it doesn’t mean that they hate you. It doesn’t mean it’s not a no. It’s never, it’s never a no. It’s just a not right now. This isn’t the time. And then you then like, then you’ve already built a somewhat of a relationship to touch base at a later time. It’s, um, you can’t take it personally. 

Brook

You get, you have done hard things. have done hard things. You have done hard things. I think that’s a brilliant place to end. Thank you. You’re welcome. Thank you so very much. And are you going to tell us the name of your gym so that we can actually go and find it? 

Kate

Absolutely. So I have The Yard Gym in Brookvale on Sydney’s Northern Neaches.

Come and find us. Come and find us. 

Brook

This has been so much fun. And you know, if it’s anything like the first time you appeared on the podcast, that was, who’s afraid of accountability? We talked about accountability. We did. In that episode. And it was one of the all time most popular episodes. So. 

Kate

Stop it. The compliments keep rolling. Oh, there’s more where that came from, baby.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me and thank you for thinking of me. It’s been fun. 

Brook

Real quick before you go, if this episode has gotten you thinking, gotten you excited or has you changing the way that you do business or life,  would you do me a super quick favor and write me a short review?  Your podcast review means so much to me and it helps other values based business owners just like you to find this show, which is a fantastic gift to me.